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Stripper responses
Apr. 25th, 2008 01:14 amFirst, my response to Sienna:
"When we judge other people, even mildly calling it "die-hard people-watching" we are also subliminally assuming that others are judging us. Or at least watching us and being critical of our presentation. This runs smack up against the philosophy of "Every man and Every Woman is a star, spinning in their own orbit." Also runs into "harm none, do as ye Will.""
If I cared about what people thought about me, I wouldn't show up to class or anywhere else the way I do, I'd care about what my hair looked like, I'd wear makeup, I'd shave things, and I'd lose about 200 lbs. I am just as outside the norm as the lady I was commenting about. And being a stripper can be a noble profession. As long as she isn't doing it to support a drug or alcohol addiction or using it as a means to be a prostitute for the same reason, I say more power to her. There are many women in today's adult dancing scene that do it to pay their way through college or support children in ways they would normally never be able to do.
I know the outside of a person isn't the inside of a person. But there are some people where unfortunately the outside of the person is the inside of the person. I'm not saying that it is the case with this woman. Her being in college says that probably isn't entirely the case. But as a person who values intelligence above most other things, this woman's outside appearance is a stumbling block for her. Heck, others may view my weight as a stumbling block for me. And it is in some respects. Do you honestly think there isn't size discrimination? Do you honestly believe that generally speaking, fat people aren't regarded as lazy and incompetent? People do judge me, and I get that. Everyone makes snap judgements about others whether they realize it or not. It takes 3 seconds to make a first impression. No one is exempt from making intial impressions. Not even you. My initial impression of that woman is she may be a stripper. It's an observation of a possible occupation, not a comment on her personality, intelligence, or demeanor. If I got to know her, which is unlikely to happen given the circumstances, my impression of her may change. But my original opinion still stands.
To Lupa:
"I strongly disagree. This assumes that everyone makes their choices based on what others think. Did it ever occur to you that she wears what she wears because that's what she likes? If I wear fetish gear, does that automatically mean that I'm trying to get people to think something about me, rather than dressing because that's what I'm comfortable in?"
You just made my point. You may love fetish gear, and that's fine. But when you wear fetish gear, it lets people know you like that stuff. If you dressed in normal clothing, no one would know you had any kinds of fetishes at all, now would they?
"Why would anyone else want to do something outside of the norm? Why be a pagan? Or an out of the closet queer?"
Don't really know what you are trying to say here. I was saying that I ponder people's clothing choices in a philosophical/psychological manner. Not as in "eww, they shouldn't dress that way because it's WRONG." Although, hypocritically, I will admit to playing fashion police. I guess I have watched too many fashion shows in the past. At least I'm not Christian from Project Runway. FIERCE!
"So looking sexy = must be dumb? Doesn't sound very feminist to me. In fact, that plays right into traditional, patriarchal stereotypes: Feminine = stupid. To me, feminist means having the choice to be whoever and whatever you want, even if that means being a sex kitten, or a house wife."
So, where in my comments did I accuse that person of being dumb? I didn't make that assumption anywhere at all. For what reason did you jump to that conclusion? When I said that it was a good thing she was educating herself, I said in the vein that if she was a stripper, and she was being a stripper to pay her way through college, that was a good thing. I know that in many cases while reading something that is potentially controversial, it can trigger things within our psyche that causes us to interpret things in certain ways. I never said the woman was dumb. I did say she was overly tanned, and she was for my taste. I did say she was dressed garrishly, and it was for my taste. I did say she had fake boobs. Those were obvious and I was stating a fact.
I am fully aware of the amount of smart and savvy women in the sex trade. I am also fully aware of the amount of women who strip or practice prostitution to support drugs and alcohol. And I am aware of the entire gamut of women in between. Please don't jump to conclusions about things I never wrote about. K?
to Opala:
"Ah, I've always enjoyed people who aren't afraid to dress or act outside of the norm, I've always found them to be interesting people. & I think college is a great place to be bit more on the colorful side... since it's usually pre-career and out of parental control... if you can't different then, then when can you be?
As for being sexy(slutty even), I don't find any wrong with it... I'm a feminist also and being so I think women as a group are too judgmental on each other."
My point of view stems from being taken advantage of by many men. If one dresses the part of sexy/slutty/stripper, the first thing men will think of when they look at you is sex. But once the sex is over, what is underneath? The woman made a comment in the last class. We were talking about types of marriages. I am all for peer marriages, where the marriage is equal and egalitarian. She said she actually wants a traditional marriage where the man is in charge of basically everything. I wonder if that is why she dresses the way she does if she isn't a stripper. Perhaps she wants a man to take care of her. Perhaps she is looking for a sugar daddy. It's just that that type of person is a total affront to me. It's because if I put myself in her place, I could see her ending up going through all of the pain I have already gone through. I would end up being used for sex again. I would end up giving up all control to a man. It pains me horribly thinking about all I've went through and that woman brings all of that pain to the surface again. To be honest, who in their right mind would want to go through what I have gone through? That is why I dislike her dress, her hair, etc. She obviously has a hell of a lot of lessons to go through. If there were any way I could prevent that from happening, I would. No one should have to go through what I have gone through. I mean, hey, I could be completely wrong. I hope I am.
You know how they say "if only I knew back then what I know now."? I want to smack that into her. Can't. But if only.
"When we judge other people, even mildly calling it "die-hard people-watching" we are also subliminally assuming that others are judging us. Or at least watching us and being critical of our presentation. This runs smack up against the philosophy of "Every man and Every Woman is a star, spinning in their own orbit." Also runs into "harm none, do as ye Will.""
If I cared about what people thought about me, I wouldn't show up to class or anywhere else the way I do, I'd care about what my hair looked like, I'd wear makeup, I'd shave things, and I'd lose about 200 lbs. I am just as outside the norm as the lady I was commenting about. And being a stripper can be a noble profession. As long as she isn't doing it to support a drug or alcohol addiction or using it as a means to be a prostitute for the same reason, I say more power to her. There are many women in today's adult dancing scene that do it to pay their way through college or support children in ways they would normally never be able to do.
I know the outside of a person isn't the inside of a person. But there are some people where unfortunately the outside of the person is the inside of the person. I'm not saying that it is the case with this woman. Her being in college says that probably isn't entirely the case. But as a person who values intelligence above most other things, this woman's outside appearance is a stumbling block for her. Heck, others may view my weight as a stumbling block for me. And it is in some respects. Do you honestly think there isn't size discrimination? Do you honestly believe that generally speaking, fat people aren't regarded as lazy and incompetent? People do judge me, and I get that. Everyone makes snap judgements about others whether they realize it or not. It takes 3 seconds to make a first impression. No one is exempt from making intial impressions. Not even you. My initial impression of that woman is she may be a stripper. It's an observation of a possible occupation, not a comment on her personality, intelligence, or demeanor. If I got to know her, which is unlikely to happen given the circumstances, my impression of her may change. But my original opinion still stands.
To Lupa:
"I strongly disagree. This assumes that everyone makes their choices based on what others think. Did it ever occur to you that she wears what she wears because that's what she likes? If I wear fetish gear, does that automatically mean that I'm trying to get people to think something about me, rather than dressing because that's what I'm comfortable in?"
You just made my point. You may love fetish gear, and that's fine. But when you wear fetish gear, it lets people know you like that stuff. If you dressed in normal clothing, no one would know you had any kinds of fetishes at all, now would they?
"Why would anyone else want to do something outside of the norm? Why be a pagan? Or an out of the closet queer?"
Don't really know what you are trying to say here. I was saying that I ponder people's clothing choices in a philosophical/psychological manner. Not as in "eww, they shouldn't dress that way because it's WRONG." Although, hypocritically, I will admit to playing fashion police. I guess I have watched too many fashion shows in the past. At least I'm not Christian from Project Runway. FIERCE!
"So looking sexy = must be dumb? Doesn't sound very feminist to me. In fact, that plays right into traditional, patriarchal stereotypes: Feminine = stupid. To me, feminist means having the choice to be whoever and whatever you want, even if that means being a sex kitten, or a house wife."
So, where in my comments did I accuse that person of being dumb? I didn't make that assumption anywhere at all. For what reason did you jump to that conclusion? When I said that it was a good thing she was educating herself, I said in the vein that if she was a stripper, and she was being a stripper to pay her way through college, that was a good thing. I know that in many cases while reading something that is potentially controversial, it can trigger things within our psyche that causes us to interpret things in certain ways. I never said the woman was dumb. I did say she was overly tanned, and she was for my taste. I did say she was dressed garrishly, and it was for my taste. I did say she had fake boobs. Those were obvious and I was stating a fact.
I am fully aware of the amount of smart and savvy women in the sex trade. I am also fully aware of the amount of women who strip or practice prostitution to support drugs and alcohol. And I am aware of the entire gamut of women in between. Please don't jump to conclusions about things I never wrote about. K?
to Opala:
"Ah, I've always enjoyed people who aren't afraid to dress or act outside of the norm, I've always found them to be interesting people. & I think college is a great place to be bit more on the colorful side... since it's usually pre-career and out of parental control... if you can't different then, then when can you be?
As for being sexy(slutty even), I don't find any wrong with it... I'm a feminist also and being so I think women as a group are too judgmental on each other."
My point of view stems from being taken advantage of by many men. If one dresses the part of sexy/slutty/stripper, the first thing men will think of when they look at you is sex. But once the sex is over, what is underneath? The woman made a comment in the last class. We were talking about types of marriages. I am all for peer marriages, where the marriage is equal and egalitarian. She said she actually wants a traditional marriage where the man is in charge of basically everything. I wonder if that is why she dresses the way she does if she isn't a stripper. Perhaps she wants a man to take care of her. Perhaps she is looking for a sugar daddy. It's just that that type of person is a total affront to me. It's because if I put myself in her place, I could see her ending up going through all of the pain I have already gone through. I would end up being used for sex again. I would end up giving up all control to a man. It pains me horribly thinking about all I've went through and that woman brings all of that pain to the surface again. To be honest, who in their right mind would want to go through what I have gone through? That is why I dislike her dress, her hair, etc. She obviously has a hell of a lot of lessons to go through. If there were any way I could prevent that from happening, I would. No one should have to go through what I have gone through. I mean, hey, I could be completely wrong. I hope I am.
You know how they say "if only I knew back then what I know now."? I want to smack that into her. Can't. But if only.
